Open Thread IV

for Muttley in particular, or anyone who’s interested


  1. I am not interested in fighting, but based on your posts I wondered if YOU would be the one wishing to engage in such activity. My apologies if my posts were misunderstood, I never wished to initiate a fight, only a change of opinions, sadly, I was clearly mistaken. I guess we can only agree to disagree, and having no further comments I'm politely disengaging from this conversation. Thank you

  2. Muttley, I wonder if Twitter and Facebook haven't misled you into a very limited idea of how to have a conversation. In future, if you want to write something on my blog, make sure that it is made up of sentences that connect together into paragraphs that make a position that is intrinsically coherent with itself and ideally with anything else you have said and haven't withdrawn.If all you are interested in is a food fight please take it somewhere else.

  3. Yes, I understand, I did post everything on this Tread under Muttley, so all posts are mine!I because is clearly described on the RC site, doesn't mean it's the truth.I see no difference between "saying that the name Arlie Schardt and its connections to RC and to Al Gore are pure coincidence" and treating me if I were retard

  4. RealClimate was not founded by EMS; the relationship between RC and EMS is clearly described on the RC site.It is unclear what you mean by "I just read the whole thread: I WASNT IN FROM OF MY PC YESTERDAY AT THAT TIME" If there is more than one Muttley it is not easy to have a conversation, you understand.

  5. Michael I didnt understand ur last post "not clear which thread Muttley is disavowing. Could you clarify?"It's not as if you have signed your name or anything… I'm not sure why you care.)"You asked me about what I tweeted and I answered…. For the record, I dont the tone of this thread, w/o politeness I'm afraid I will disengage.

  6. EMS: Environmental Media Serviceswhy did you say I am wrong? I got the information from a reliable source in DC,and I am sure you can validate it from the web….IT'S NOT COOL TO SAY SOMEONE ELSE IS WRONG WITHOUT PROVING IT!!!

  7. It wasn't hard to dig up. Here is the charming source.Apparently the EMS is the official registrant of the URL (confirmed as of today), and so has donated some ten or twenty dollars a year to the perpetuation of .It's certainly nongovernmental, as participants are from several countries.Here's the terrifying scoop on the evil Arlie Schardt.Wikipedia's take is here.Here's what RC itself says:"Readers of the Feb. 14th, 2005 Wall Street Journal may have gotten the impression that RealClimate is in some way affiliated with an environmental organisation. We wish to stress that although our domain is being hosted by Environmental Media Services, and our initial press release was organised for us by Fenton Communications, neither organization was in any way involved in the initial planning for RealClimate, and have never had any editorial or other control over content. Neither Fenton nor EMS has ever paid any contributor to any money for any purpose at any time. Neither do they pay us expenses, buy our lunch or contract us to do research. All of these facts have always been made clear to everyone who asked."In short, some fairly stable green organizations have donated server space and domain registration. RC is editorially independent and not other money changes hands. RC was founded in 2004 by scientists in the interest of scientific communication and in response to misinformation about science being promoted by commercial interests in a way that they (and I) consider irresponsible.

  8. is a group of unpaid volunteers, active participants in the climate science community, several of whom I know personally. No affiliation with any political organization exists or has ever been contemplated. Muttley's assertion is incorrect; it would be interesting to know where he got this idea.The first posting on realclimate is here dated Dec 1 2004. Realclimate has no purpose other than to maintain as clear a discussion about climate science as is feasible given other time constraints on the participants. I believe the server is donated and that no money has ever changed hands in the process. I don't know who EMS is. I am confident that no political operative has ever been involved in decision making at RC.Please provide a reference for your supposed information.

  9. REALCLIMATE.ORG was founded by EMS. EMS's founder and President: Arlie Schardt, who also served as the National Press Secretary for Al Gore's 1988 presidential campaign, and as Gore's Communications Director during his 2000 bid for the White HouseEMS officially served as the "scientific" branch of the leftist public-relations firm Fenton Communications; both companies shared the same Washington, D.C. address and office space. For more than a decade, David Fenton (CEO of Fenton Communications) used EMS to run negative media campaigns against a wide variety of targets,

  10. Michael, Quite a discovery you made. Do you find these people or do they seek you out? He seems to be courting anti-evolutionists (with magnetic pole reversal theories), global warming denialists, and Republicans. I'd like to think the Republicans I know would be insulted by this.I hadn't heard of the magnetic pole reversals as a theory for species changes. I'm curious if they insist that no new species emerged during the 40 million years of the cretaceous superchron (period of no pole reversals).Since an open thread is a terrible thing to waste, I would like to ask if you or others could expound on the current thinking for drivers of the greenhouse-icehouse transition at the eocene-oligocene boundary. I ask because two recent papers Nature (I'll get refs when I can get to my notes) described slightly different versions. One said lower CO2 with a development of the Antarctic Circumpolar current made climate sensitive to orbital forcings; the other said lower CO2 combined with orbital forcings. I'm looking for a checklist of events to watch for in the literature. I'll start:orbital change?Antarctic polar currentNorth-south antlantic currentAtmospheric CO2Movement of India into AsiaThanks,John G

  11. Well, if Muttley won't play, we can just find other members of the denial squad…I like this one:"The “global warming” myth originated in the United Nations, an organization seeking to be the single, unelected governing institution for the entire Earth. A conspiracy of alleged scientists was brought together as the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change in 1988. Ever since, we have been assailed with claims that “global warming” was such a threat to the Earth and mankind that radical changes were required to avoid it."More creative every day.

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